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Hoi Gong or opening eye ceremonies

 
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ngokfei



Joined: 08 Feb 2008
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Location: Covington Georgia

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:43 pm    Post subject: Hoi Gong or opening eye ceremonies Reply with quote

Just to get some advice on this.

After a new lion has had this ceremony done to it (including the poem) can it be repeated on the same lion at a later date.

I remember seeing it done with an older lion but without the poem.

So is it okay to do the eye opening ceremony multiple times?

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southernfist
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ngokfei:

I was told once you perform the eye opening ceremony that lion has life. So it cannot have another eye opening ceremony.

Some practitioners will dot the eyes again if they take and repair an old lion and restore it to make it appear new once again.

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Southern Fist
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ngokfei



Joined: 08 Feb 2008
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Location: Covington Georgia

PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks

It is used lion but I've recently changed out the fur on it.

Perhaps add an additional Ribbon on the Horn and feathers as well?

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ngokfei



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Location: Covington Georgia

PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

update info.

simon at blt in nyc said that redoing the hoi gung is permitted but the only restriction is that the Brush needs to be new.

after usage the brush is to be discarded (some burn it)

another interesting note:

while the norm is to use cinnabar powder various Tong's utilize Pigs Blood instead.

For me I'm going to go ahead with adding an additional Horn Ribbon (found a nice big one with gold flecks on it) along with some additional Peacock feathers.

Since its for a Chinese Cultural Museum doing the complete ceremony will lend it self to the publics awareness/appreciation for the culture.

thanks
eric

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southernfist
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ngokfei:

That is excellent to educate on the traditional culture and purpose of the Lion.

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Southern Fist
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Yauchoy
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pig's blood? I thought more normally it would be rooster blood, specifically nick the crown on the rooster's head and use that. The rooster is yang so everything in the hoi gong needs to be yang, I believe. Maybe pig is too, but I don't know. I'd only heard of rooster.
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Green Giant



Joined: 29 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When a human being does plastic surgery does he die and when the surgery is done he is reborn?

This information is really mis-leading.

You need to clarify if you are doing these eye dotting to entertain or is it religious?

Obviously if you are dotting the eyes more than once, some where prior you have taken out the spirit.
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Yauchoy
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, my inclination really is with Green Giant. I think doing hoi gong again is pretty odd. Changing the fur up really isn't the same as restoring a head. That's just maintenance.

Another way to think about it also is putting two lion spirits inside one lion, if there is one already in it. So maybe multiple-personality lion... that can't be good!

Anyway, I think you can share plenty of traditional culture with a good lion dance without worrying about showing the hoi gong too. We do such lion dances and we have yet to do a public hoi gong.

My thought FWIW
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vtml
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, so what do you guys do when someone booked a performance with you, and requested a eye dotting ceremony at the same time (eg. a new business opening) ?
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southernfist
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vtml:

Must be a new lion, never been used lion.

I would have the business owner buy the lion and have the ceremony,

Since they did the Hoi Gong and bought the Lion then it stays in the business.

The Hoi Gong ceremony is once and special.

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Green Giant



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the 15 years of my sifu's teachings, he has yet to buy a lion.

It has always been donated by business owners or parents of his students.

It should be clear to the public and especially students dotting the eye multiple times is not religious but a ritual just to make money.

Giving an honor to dot the eye of a lion is high and is done by someone of high prestiage.

Whetheer it was done for many years or it is done in Asia doesnt make dotting the same lion's eyes multiple times acceptable and a correct practice.
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Ri - Le



Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:51 am    Post subject: Buying a new lion Reply with quote

In my experience, business or whoever the client is would buy a new lion to donate to the group and be used for the ceremony and performance. It is also very charitable and is like having your own lion to dance for you.
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Yauchoy
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, They should buy the lion if they want an eye dotting ceremony. Whether they keep it or donate it is of course up to them. Why do they want an eye dotting ceremony so much?
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hasayfu
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to give another point of view.

Eye Dotting is pretty normal for a new business and as mentioned, done to a new lion. The business will buy the lion and up to them what to do. I have had both. Some keep it, some donate. The ones that donate, I usually buy a lion within the budget they want and towards what our team needs at the time.

We have also bought lions for ourselves. In these cases, we usually do an eye dotting at a civic show with the mayor or some official involved.

Here's a question, do you practice with the new lions? It might be wrong, but since every lion is a bit different, we do a few run through with the new lions before the actual show.

Also, if they are going to stay with my club, I will have them re-enforced before the first show. Us Hung Gar guys are rough on heads Confused
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southernfist
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Hing-dai:

I also re-inforce the lions bought by our mo gwoon. I was taught by Sifu Yee to always reinforce prior to take them out for shows since we Hung Ga practitioners do crack and tear the lions on our first show if not re-inforce.

we do not practice with new ones since we may tear them.

Peter

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