www.liondancing.org Forum Index www.liondancing.org
Lion Dancing Forum
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Corey Chan/Chris-Golden Lock Cheng?
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    www.liondancing.org Forum Index -> Knowledge & Advice
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SleepingDragon
Identity Verified
Identity Verified


Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 412

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:58 am    Post subject: Corey Chan/Chris-Golden Lock Cheng? Reply with quote

Someone told me you folks once brought this up in the Lion dance lists. Did you folks ever eleborate on this any further or this ended up a complete dead end? Would like to hear about it if you found anything new about it since then?
_________________
Swift as the Wind. Quiet like the forrest. Fierce as a raging fire. Immovable as a mountain.

Sun Tzu
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Corey Chan
Identity Verified
Identity Verified


Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:06 pm    Post subject: Golden Lock Cheng Reply with quote

According to one well-known and enigmatic source, this puzzle is only solvable by a lion that is accompanied by a dai tou fut. The lion alone cannot open the lock.

The story went like this: the hosts put out a large reward for any lion dance team that could correctly solve the Golden Lock Cheng. For a long time, the solution remained a mystery. Either the local teams of lion dancers did not dare make the attempt, or they tried, but did not know the correct solution. Just when it appeared that the puzzle would remain unsolved, the team of lion dancers that ultimately succeeded in attaining the reward made their attempt. What set them apart was the fact that they were escorted by a dai tou fut. As it turned out, he was the missing part of the solution of the Golden Lock Puzzle.

The solution? Why, the dai tou fut opened the lock with a wave of his magic fan!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lionscave1
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 1037

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good summary, thanks for sharing!

I've wondered about "contests" like this. The cheng is often out in the open and the lion only needs to navigate obstacles or play elements correctly to get to it. It seems to me that there would be multiple ways to get through the obstacles even if the author of the puzzle only intends one.

So if a group starts with the wrong element or navigates the obstacle "wrong" but is still able to physically get to the cheng does the author simply stop the performance and tell them to go home?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
SleepingDragon
Identity Verified
Identity Verified


Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 412

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What did the cheng look like physically?

There are several chengs where it is said you are supposed to use the buddha.

I know the palm leaf fan is magical. With the lion, it is supposed to burn the lion, so that is why the lion obeys the monk (like the monkey king and the head band.). So for those who play the buddha with the fan and waves it at the lion, the lion should act accordingly. On the other hand the iron palm leaf fan in the monkey king-could generate for lack of a better discription a force five hurricane.

So was it because the fan could burn open the lock or the winds ripped it apart. please pray tell the reasoning. Also, what was the story taken from, it had to come from somewhere?

In Singapore if you are doing the puzzle correctly, you get the big prize, other wise they give the lion a smaller hong bao. At least that's what I was told happens in some cases. The persoon will watch and if you do it incorrectly the the smaller is out up, if you do it correctly, I suppose at a certain point they can tell you will get the rest, and the bigger prize will be hung up/put out.

However, this is very rare, most prople want good fortune and trying to get another lion dance team at the last minute on CNY would prove difficult. However, if you don't know, don't be stupid with false pride. First ask, what the theme of the puzzle is. THEY HHAVE TO TELL YOU THIS MUCH. If still can't figure out then ask and let the person know (this is showing humulity), they will tell you (if not then they are being an a$$hole. Of course there are those from yesteryear-a rival's friend will want to test/humiliate your group.

_________________
Swift as the Wind. Quiet like the forrest. Fierce as a raging fire. Immovable as a mountain.

Sun Tzu
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Corey Chan
Identity Verified
Identity Verified


Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trying to dig up more of the background and more details of the puzzle. Where are those dang notes? I hope I can find some additional information for you.

I have also heard about the practice of placing a token hong bao with the cheng. Only after the proper completion of the puzzle is the real hong bao given to the lion dance team that earns it. Other prizes were/are also offered to the team after a good performance.

I've read that there are certain lion dance cheng that should not even be attempted unless the lion dancers know EXACTLY how to solve them, for incorrect solutions bring bad luck to the hosts. In the past, performing these kinds of puzzles incorrectly resulted in being booed out of the area or worse. A lot worse.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vtml
Identity Verified
Identity Verified


Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 204
Location: Melbourne Australia

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is more to the chang than the Dai Tao Fut opening the lock. Siow sifu explained to us how this chang needs to be solved in the last seminar in Brisbane Australia.

The lock is accompanied with a staff/stick next to it, acting as a door. The Dai Tao Fut opens it with the fan, as the fan is a magical tool that allows the Dai Tao Fut to open the lock. Dai Tao Fut keeps the lock in his sleeves, puts the staff aside, and proceeds to lead the lion "inside". During this, the Dai Tao Fut can act like he has tripped over the door steps (as traditional Chinese style houses has very high steps that you must cross to prevent flood) and rolls on the floor. Lion does its thing by getting the cheng inside, and then both Dai Tao Fut and lion exit out of the "house". Dai Tao Fut closes the door by replacing the staff to its original position. Pause, picks it up again and does a staff form with it to the audience. Upon completion, he places the staff on the floor, takes the paddlock out and "locks" the door again.

_________________
Vincent
Hong De Lion Dance Association (Melbourne Australia) - 澳洲墨爾本弘德國術會
U. M. A. A.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
SleepingDragon
Identity Verified
Identity Verified


Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 412

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting, thanks for sharing. Does that sound similar to your notes Mr. Chan?

One thing though, what does the lock represent? I guess, what I mean is what is it supposed to be guarding? Also why was it called Golden lock.

On a side note Vince mentioned about the door threshold being high for floods. If I recall their was a discussion about this, this would make sense for regular houses I guess. However, high thresholds can be seen in many buildings that were inside that were many feet above the ground of course these were part of mansions and forts.

I have heard about some funky chengs from singapore folks. One involved a funeral palor using a casket. That everyone watching the performance was supposed to be considered dead in the lion's eye's. I guess its good luck for the funeral palor because this means people are going to die and business is about to pick up, or is that put down? Rolling Eyes Don't ask me to elaborate, because I don't know, not something I really want to know. Others include rice bowl with chopsticks stuck in the ground, which most of you know has to do with the dead.

I think you have to go to southeast asia if you want to see more these things. Not sure about taiwan and HK which is so crowded.

BTW, VTML-did you find out about the seminar in Hong Kong? I heard it is supposed to be in July now.

_________________
Swift as the Wind. Quiet like the forrest. Fierce as a raging fire. Immovable as a mountain.

Sun Tzu
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Nixter
Identity Verified
Identity Verified


Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry for straying a little off topic but are the men kai (door threshold) really to prevent flooding? I was told that it was a way to tell the status of the people who lived there. The higher the thresholds were signified more important people. Kind of like the main doorway decorations. this is very interesting.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
George
Identity Verified
Identity Verified


Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Posts: 347
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just some addition note to Vincent, the dai tou fatt uses the handle of the fan like a key to unlock the lock. I think a few years ago Master Siow organised a puzzle solving competition in Malaysia including elaborate ones like the 'Pa Gua & spider' puzzle, & it took Kuan Loke 45 mins to 'solved' it. Pity it didn't catch on.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
SleepingDragon
Identity Verified
Identity Verified


Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 412

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

George wrote:
Just some addition note to Vincent, the dai tou fatt uses the handle of the fan like a key to unlock the lock. I think a few years ago Master Siow organised a puzzle solving competition in Malaysia including elaborate ones like the 'Pa Gua & spider' puzzle, & it took Kuan Loke 45 mins to 'solved' it. Pity it didn't catch on.


So the handle is supposed to be the pick? But why do they call it the GOLDEN LOCK? What is it guarding or where does this come from? You know like some routines comes from the 3 Kingdoms.

_________________
Swift as the Wind. Quiet like the forrest. Fierce as a raging fire. Immovable as a mountain.

Sun Tzu
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
lionscave1
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 1037

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nixter wrote:
sorry for straying a little off topic but are the men kai (door threshold) really to prevent flooding? I was told that it was a way to tell the status of the people who lived there. The higher the thresholds were signified more important people. Kind of like the main doorway decorations. this is very interesting.


brief discussion of it in this topic:

http://www.liondancing.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=528
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
vtml
Identity Verified
Identity Verified


Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 204
Location: Melbourne Australia

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SleepingDragon wrote:


BTW, VTML-did you find out about the seminar in Hong Kong? I heard it is supposed to be in July now.


Seminar is going to be in July, so I will miss out on that. It's OK though, there will be a competition in Australia this year or next year, and I will do the judging course then.

_________________
Vincent
Hong De Lion Dance Association (Melbourne Australia) - 澳洲墨爾本弘德國術會
U. M. A. A.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
SleepingDragon
Identity Verified
Identity Verified


Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 412

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, no one knows the story of The Golden Lock? What it represent or comes from?

I have heard of a Golden Lock and Silver Lock used like a good luck charm to protect a family member. Are they related or is there another story to it?

Just like Jiang tzu ya (ziya) goes fishing-there is a story behind it.

_________________
Swift as the Wind. Quiet like the forrest. Fierce as a raging fire. Immovable as a mountain.

Sun Tzu
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
SleepingDragon
Identity Verified
Identity Verified


Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 412

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dug up this old post, after talking with Siow Sifu about it. I was correct in that it is the same lock that is a charm used to lock a newborn to life and the family. This was done in part because of the high infant mortality rate in China I guess. Anyway, Siow also added that the lock if they used the actual charm would be given to the family by the dai tou fut to hang around the infants neck or to hang in its room. As it is considered blessed by the dai tou fut.
_________________
Swift as the Wind. Quiet like the forrest. Fierce as a raging fire. Immovable as a mountain.

Sun Tzu
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Corey Chan
Identity Verified
Identity Verified


Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The chang ming suo! Love how those things sound. Sometimes they have the characters chang ming fu gui. Thanks for the explanation Sleeping Dragon.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    www.liondancing.org Forum Index -> Knowledge & Advice All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group